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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Ducati keen to see Nicky Hayden in WSB

Ducati doesn’t want to cut axed MotoGP rider Nicky Hayden completely off its payroll in 2014 and will try and tempt the American to ride a Panigale in World Superbikes. The 2006 world champion has not had his factory MotoGP contract renewed for a sixth season, but there is still serious interest in his services with a range of WSB and...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (09 August 2013 10:51)

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saturn392

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Nov 03

Posts: 2084

saturn392 says:

Let's face it

None of us know why the Ducati is not competitive - clearly Burgess thought like Briggs that it was going to be easily fixed - and why wouldn't he given his long background as the top crew chief ranging from NSR500 (Doohan) NSR500 (Rossi) RCV 990,  Yamaha 800 etc....    The bike is an enigma with only one man on the planet capable of riding it ?   It all boils down to one fact - the bike is basically flawed and all the tinkering in the world is not going to make it competitive.  It's like the riders say it needs a major re-working and that's the very thing that Ducati are reluctant to do.  Are they re-designing the bike in the background ? What has changed since the injection of Audi cash ? Apparently nothing.  What is also apparent is that at the present time no progress is being made.

Any theories, ideas welcomed !

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YamahaGYTR

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Sep 11

Posts: 2284

YamahaGYTR says:

 Buy a MotoGP season review from the book shop to find out that will tell you why the Ducati is not a competitive bike. 

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saturn392

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Nov 03

Posts: 2084

saturn392 says:

Thanks GYTR

Will look for a copy.  

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YamahaGYTR

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Sep 11

Posts: 2284

YamahaGYTR says:

 You're welcome saturn mate. I've nearly got the full collection of them from 2004 onwards. 

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CHRainmaker

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Jul 11

Posts: 1813

CHRainmaker says:

Listen..

 ..JB, Briggs and I suspect Rossi all know why the bike isn't working, at least that's what has been alluded too. Reading between the lines and in some cases not even having to do that, explain's everything, you just need to take the blinkers off...

 

For one reason or another, the Ducati riders have historically not been listened to by the suits that pay the bills and the spiral downwards continues. When asked what's different about working for a Japanese manufacturer, Burgess replied, and I'm paraphrasing, " The Japanese respond quickly to what's being asked for from a rider, whereas there's an element of suspicion from Ducati and they don't always trust the feedback"

 

He's basically saying, the engineers in Bologna think they know best, and the chain of communication from the pit to the lab is often broken..

 

What is it about that you don't understand?.. 

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Paddedcell100

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Oct 12

Posts: 99

That sounds bang on the money to me CHR... I did get talking to a fella last year that used to do a lot of bike testing for various magazines and manufacturers and while this is only what he told me and therefore is not necessarily true,i have no reason to believe that he was being anything other than honest with me. He told me that during his various testing duties he met up with Marco Melandri,and it was after his time at Ducati,and Marco told him that he would go out on the bike on Friday practice and make a few changes during the session,as they do,and make a bit of progress but then he would come back in on Saturday and the bike would be put back to how it was and basically be told,thats what works for Stoner so that's how you will ride it...

Now as I say,its only hearsay and I cannot prove it but it rather rings true with other things that have been said and if it is true then Ducati only have themselves to blame. Lets just hope that with the new staff and owners that things will finally start to get turned around,this Championship needs more than just 4 bikes capable of winning it.

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wosihound

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Jul 12

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wosihound says:

Jesus..

..so the bike's NOT working now is it?

Make your fkn mind up 'cause you just spent 2 days twisting and paraphrasing unsubstantiated comments from Briggs, trying to convince us the bike is competitive?

Then you've got the front to talk about blinkers and not understanding?

Tell me..was Preziosi a suit?

What about Domenicali?

Then there's good old Casey, who rather than try and fix problems preferred to ride around them sending everyone down a blind alley..prior to jumping on to the best bike at Honda, where he did exactly the same thing 2012.

 

Interesting nugget from Paddedcell.

Look at the improvement Hayden made during/after the 3 races Stoner was having his sickie in 2009, when Ducati perhaps focused more on the American and were rumoured to be lining up a replacement for the Australian.

Indeed, things turned full circle with Stoner adopting Hayden's settings at Aragon 2010, to end an 11 month winless streak.  

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doohanfan

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Jan 12

Posts: 1565

doohanfan says:

Back to wosiworld again

They didn't go back to the carbon fibre bike, but they didn't go back to the trellis frame thing either, and it is ridiculous to imply that Stoner somehow is  the designer of the carbon fibre bike, not that it didn't work fine for him in 2009 anyway; I think he is talented, but I don't think he had time to fit an engineering degree in.

Like Rossi and everyone else Melandri couldn't ride an 800 Ducati, even that fabulous 2007 bike on 2007 tyres on which your grandmother could apparently have won the championship. Like Valentino in 2010 his form on that bike in the first few laps in the post season test didn't change during the rest of his Ducati tenure. Ducati should have let him set up the bike the way he wanted and recognised the bike had problems rather than send him to a shrink, and no doubt Ducati are intransigent, but not entirely following his direction because he improved from 2.5 seconds off Stoner to 2.4 seconds off is hardly the most vehement proof of their intransigence.

It was not in the final analysis good for Ducati that only Stoner could ride their bike, but it is hardly Stoner's fault.

And as you well know whether or not Stoner can develop bikes the 2012 Honda had invincible pace before Dorna nobbled it.



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wosihound

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Posts: 3018

wosihound says:

What about Doohanfan Land?

Away with the bleedin' fairies & Peter Pan on route to Never Never Blame Casey Stoner Land..

In varying degrees, your ilk are all the same..

Of course..he's not in the slightest bit responsible for the goings on at Ducati and their plight now, despite 4 years at the helm? 

It's all DORNA's fault over 2012..fk all to do with HRC telling lies at MSMA meetings and riders voting democratically through the Safety Council?

Bags of talent. Great rider..no doubt, but don't kid yourself as a WC and undisputed #1 at Bologna that Stoner & Gabbarini were sat like maids in a row waiting to be told what to ride and how to go about their business.

If that's your line of defence to absolve them of any blame whatsoever, it's bordering on the deluded pitch CHR gave about Del Torchio and the suits making key engineering decisions and the Corse paddock being puppets..which kind of confirms what I'm saying if that's the case.

 "They didn't go back to the carbon fibre bike, but they didn't go back to the trellis frame thing either.."

FFS you big girls blouse..is this the sum of your reasoning why they've kept the ALU beam frame?

You need to do a bit more homework..try frame flex under braking, airbox space & cooling for starters.

Then you can give a thesis on how Stoner said every bike felt different due to inconsistency in all the tube welding tolerances.

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doohanfan

Joined:

Jan 12

Posts: 1565

doohanfan says:

Was the 2009 bike competive

or not in Stoner's hands Wosi, when he was healthy, despite the developments that both Yamaha and Honda  were making apace by your own argument? His problem was never one lap pace in 2009, it was lacking the physical endurance to last race distance. When he regained his physical endurance he could maintain the one lap pace, however hard Jorge and Valentino were trying or not trying.

Rossi made the best that he could of the intransigent bike not of Stoner's devising that was handed on to him, because he has great race craft, but never found the one lap pace Stoner had even on the 2010 bike, which was the whole narrative of his time at Ducati if you listen to what Valentino himself said.
 
Sylvain Guintoli has recently backed up what every other rider of the Ducati (apart from perhaps Marco Melandri, who since he couldn't lap within 2 seconds of Stoner could perhaps like you be adjudged to be somewhat jaundiced in his view), and close non-rider observers such as those idiots Jerry Burgess and Carlo Pernat, have said, that Stoner basically nearly crashed the thing in every corner to obtain the pace he extracted from it. Is this the way a motogp bike should need to be ridden? Absolutely not, but again hardly Stoner's fault, and as Farnarkle perhaps hyperbolically said on the other thread he brought Ducati success of which they otherwise could not have dreamed.

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