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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Podium eludes Valentino Rossi in Sepang

Valentino Rossi had to settle for yet another fourth position in punishing heat at the Sepang track in Malaysia yesterday (Sunday). The Italian was optimistic of a podium challenge after he started from the front row of the grid for only the third time in 2013. But for the seventh time in 15 races, Rossi would have to see the podium right...

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  • Posted 284 days ago (14 October 2013 10:43)

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ColonelClaw

Joined:

Nov 12

Posts: 242

ColonelClaw says:

Well then

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Meanwhile, here's a journalist I highly recommend who definitely knows his stuff. Always worth reading Matt Oxley's post-race reports:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/lorenzo-vs-marquez/

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 2323

DeGrasse says:

Nostrodamus

 I leave the grass smoking to you my friend.

As a matter of FACT the Yasmaha chassis havent that bad for year and it wasn't Rossi who was first pilot in 2011 and 2012, and two more things: First of all one of Lorenzo titles was won on Rossi's bike, secondly than Pedrosa won one more GP last year, Burgess explains very well what the difference is between the two and the changes made to it are on par with his technical explainations.

Secondly; the two pilots complaints about the chassis behavior today and their issues are consistant with the changes made to the chassis since Lorenzo was rid of rossi in the team.

Lorenzo style is good for corner speed but they can't brake as late and strongly as the Hondas, can't turn on the brakes nor accelerate as strongly because the rear in near uncontrolable and they haven't got enough weight on the front wheel to keep the whole thing under control when it slides.

So before makling such remarks about people, i would strongly suggest that first you inform yourself properly and perhaps learn a little on the subject in passing.

Good day to you sir.

 

 

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 2323

DeGrasse says:

ColonelClaws

 This article is really simplistic: Compare it to what Burgess says about this year chassis and you will understand a few things other than "the Honda is faster", especially after Crutchlow complained about having too much power during the same race. (!?!)

The Yamnaha have a longer swing Arm since 2011, it suits Lorenzo style (based on corner speed) better but since Rossi and Burgess started testing it, they figured a few things: It doesn't let them slide the bike during braking, so weight transfert canot be limited this way and they got less grip, it doesn't let them go deep on the breaks in the corner, and lately, Lorenzo complained it was too a"gressive" after the bike nearly spit him out on the gas in slipery condition, all of which is consistant of a longer wheelbase a weight distribution biased to the rear (comparatively).

Otherwise said, they lack traction or have too much of it depending on the part of the track and have too much weight on the rear wheel, making it harder to pass the power to the track and control slides (moment arm, leverage, weight), and to turn on the brakes as the Hondas does, you need a front which is planted, not the case here.

Not enough weight on the front wheel for controling its movements, also if the bike could slide more easily, they would find morergrip at the end of the race, as so far, they spend too much time where the tyre is at its maximum traction on corner speed, with bikes of this weight, they suffer more from the track abrasion than if the tyre was sliding earlier on the gas.

And it is not Rossi who was asked what he wanted by Yamaha since end 2010 but Lorenzo.

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 4965

Nostrodamus says:

Just another yellow bellied fanboy in a grass skirt I see

Rumour has it MotoGP bikes are almost infinitely adjustable in rake, trail, chain length, engine position, electronic input, you name it - and by consequence behaviour. Lorenzo has manged to make his work rather well 2013. Rossi has taken 14 races to find a set-up he professes he likes and still can't get on the podium Why? He doesn't posess the skills of the three Aliens. These are the simple facts.

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 2323

DeGrasse says:

Nostrodamus

 Can you keep it polite if not personal? If i need information on how "rumouristic" settings affects these bikes i know where to ask and you are not in my list.

As a matter of fact, these setting are FAR from being enough to compensate for the issues caused by the basic geometry of the 2013 chassis, they already are used to the stop and don't work 100% even on their best tracks, Nor did the change of fuel tank or seat position.

I knew it, you didn't, so please again, inform yourself beforew writing and next time you address me, avoid looking at yourself in the mirror previous to doing it, it will spare you making a mistake. Thanks.

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saturn392

Joined:

Nov 03

Posts: 1969

saturn392 says:

Nouveau-Nostro

Trip Trap, trip trap, hop n skip - over the rickety bridge - you know what's coming - DON'T you ?

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 2323

DeGrasse says:

Something else.

 Rossi and Lorenzo setting and style are totally differents, on this chassis, Rossi can't even slide the bike on the breaks which would help its behavior during weight transfert, which he used to do even in 2010, he says of it that it is stable but is a "normal" bike.

The settings he uses shortens the wheelbase but  not enough to make the bike react the way he likes to.

More to it, it losed its ballance and is not totally inconsitstant with different fuel loads, Cal Crutchlow had the same issue.

There is more than enough power on tap with the Yamaha engine, their problem is that they can't pass this power on the track the way the Honda riders does even less as early, hence they loose in acceleration.

On slipery conditions it bites them harder than a Honda would, it's rather simple to comprehend when one tries, less weight on the front means less control from it.; slides are more violent (more weight, further away from the steering head which increases the inertia of the whole thing), it doesnt take a rocket scientist to comprehend that, just try hitting a small nail with a sledgehammer instead of your usual hammer while holding it by its end, i'm sure you will comprehend the principle at the first strike.

The Yamaha didn't have these issues back in 2010 and even was handling better than the Honda at the time, changes have been made to accomodate Lorenzo style and what Burgess says about it is consistant of what they complain about today.

www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/30/interview-with-valentino-rossi-yamaha-engineer-jeremy-burgess/

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hello4646

Joined:

Oct 08

Posts: 550

hello4646 says:

Pacey

Only go back two years, why!!!!!   Casey is one of the most talented riders out there, that there is no question.  Casey's weakness is his mind.  Going into Luguna 08, Rossi was just 20 points in front of Casey.  We all know what happened in the race.  It's what happened after that race. Two non finishes on the bounce from Casey, whilst leading if i am correct.  Did not win the title 08. In fact he never won another title until he jumped on the Honda.  Can't of been the Duke!!!!!!!!!!! 

I would love to see him return to MotoGP, he dont belong in a car.  We need more riders in MotoGP that can run at the front.  Cal has run up the front this year, but i cannot see him any where near the front on the Duke.  The rest of the current GP riders will all be on the same bikes next year, so the winner will come from 1 of 4 riders.  Saying that, now that MM has a year under his belt, i think we will see him run away with it as Rossi did in his prime  

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 4965

Nostrodamus says:

More recycled grass out your back end Grasser?

You're not likely to get two more similiar styled riders than Rossi and Lorenzo. Both brought up as corner speed kings, both neat, tidy and compact it their movements on the bike. Both in essence products of not just their tiddler bike upbringings, but the sweet handling Furusawa inspired mighty M1's.

That CW (a good rag in it's day. I used to buy it 25-30 years ago) article says fack all about any difficiencies (real or imagined) in the M1. In fact I didn't read a single JB quote within. Kevin Cameron is a proper guru though and talks sense.

As I've carped on for years the 55-67kg lump on top of the bike and how it's placed in each dynamic facet of cornering has a far bigger bearing than anything else on machine behaviour. JL & VR (and Bradl for an example on the other side of town) are relatively passive riders. CS, MM & DP dominate their machines, bending them to their will.

Anyway why on earth wouldn't Yamaha follow the World Champions direction? He's won five races this year, suggesting the M1 flat out works. Once more you're just adding smelly yellow methane to the atmosphere with the sole agenda of trying to exonerate yet another poor season from the world nr.6.

Saturn. You're off on a tangent all of your own again. Try not to inhale your own gases either, benin or noxious they're pretty pointless.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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Smackbum

Joined:

Jun 11

Posts: 229

Smackbum says:

Tyres tires

 

   1.  Yep - Yamaha, Honda and Ducati have different chassis and weight distribution.

    2. Yep - due partly to #1, spec tyres will invariably suit one make more than another.

    3. Yep - notwithstanding #2 ... how the rider copes with building grip under braking is key to getting around the corner fast, without falling off.

    4.  Yep  - the current championship standings are true to form, though Jorge and Dani don't deserve to be quite so far behind Marky Marq.

Not much more to say....

 

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