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Anonymous

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Simon Patterson  says:

Rossi happy with progress with new chief Galbusera

Valentino Rossi says that his first day testing without Jeremy Burgess at his side was ‘emotional,’ but that he’s pleased with the progress he’s made with new crew chief Silvano Galbusera, who has replaced the Australian after 14 years. Rossi, who rode his new 2014 machine with control ECU alongside his current machine, lapped only 0.1 off teammate Lorenzo to finish...

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  • Posted 282 days ago (12 November 2013 14:30)

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doohanfan

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Jan 12

Posts: 1565

doohanfan says:

We get it De Grasse

You don't like Jorge Lorenzo.

Some might see this as a provincial attitude. Valentino has just sacked Burgess, and Yamaha seem pretty happy with Jorge.

Corner speed was not the way for the 990s, as everyone acknowledges. Whether it is not the way for the current Yamaha in the current formula is less sure, but not dependent imo on how good Valentino Rossi was on the 2004 Yamaha, which was very good obviously. The Ducati 800 and 1000 bikes were not cornerspeed bikes as far as I can tell, btw.

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DeGrasse

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DeGrasse says:

doohanfan

Yuo got your simplified version of the truth and what i keep saying.

Here to give you one more clue: Wayne Rainey on J Kosinnski:

"He was trying to get the factory to follow HIS devlopment path (when i wasn't there)".

http://youtu.be/GxWdBdZcIAc

It's clear enough that you guys bring these issues to the "like" and "dislike" levels, when in factit is more of looking at all the aspect involed including those you might like or not and take the time to learn about or not.

So what is it going to be for you, considering how much you can learn even to improve your own riding, doohanfan?

Yamaha had no one at this level but Lorenzo for years, Spies, Crutchlow were in the same position as all second pilots before them, now they have the new Moto 2 champ with a similar potential tham Marquez, weither they will chose to change their way remains to be seen, but if what Rossi says about the 2014 proto is true (front wheel feeling and acceleration), it's already the case.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

the possibility always exists De Grasse

that Honda with their vast resources, tradition of great engineering, in the view of some significant influence on the rules for the current and previous formulae, and in the 7th year after the end of the 990 formula might have come up with a good bike this year, ridden by a very good rider, despite winning only one of the previous 6 championships post the 990 formula. That Yamaha won 4 of those 6 championships was no doubt contributed to by Valentino and JB, certainly for at least 2 of them; I would argue that Jorge made some contribution to the other 2.

If you are an historian as you claim, you should be aware that Honda occasionally win against Yamaha; about 16 times overall I believe, strangely similar to the 16 times Yamaha has beaten Honda.

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DeGrasse

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DeGrasse says:

doohanfan

First i don't claim anything else than being a guy who drove Yamaha since the 125 RDX, both on road and tracks and knows a little about them, enough to comprehend what Burgess and Roberts say without ambiguity or risks of false interpretation.

Then i am not talking out of the void, just a look at statistics will show you one or two things: Rossi won 4 titles for Yamaha in 7 years, Lorenzo two since 2008 that's his sixth year at Yamaha, then Stoner is gone since Rossi's titles.

There is no doubt that Rossi (and Burgess) who had a strong influence in the development of the 2013 M1 also had 500 cc experience, but Lorenzo technical input have been different from the end of 2010, just as it have been when Max Biaggi was riding the 500cc Yamaha from 1999 to 2001 and never won a title.

For the story he also was in the class of Cadalora, Kosinski and now Lorenzo when it comes to style, and never really came to grip with the back-wheel stearing style, Yamaha did provide him with a chassis to match his style in 2000/2001, but he didn't win the crown did he? Rossi did on the NSR500.

There's no point arguing vs guys like Doohan or Roberts, what they know about bikes applies today the same way and if they say Marquez makes the difference because he can slide the bike when he needs it, it's pretty obvious to me why. It's been this way since 1978 and even the partial at every tracks show why.

The real question is why some people still can't figure it out and got to extreme length to justify opinions which are neither based on technical nor historical points, apart for pretending that K.R and Burgess doesn't know what they talk about or too old to compare, as if themselves knew what changed in the bike design and chassis geometry...

Something else: When Roberts was Yamaha team manager, he managed 6 titles with Eddie Lawson and Wayne Rainey, Spencer was also a BIG slider and won a title for Honda vs Roberts and then Lawson.

Stranglely enough it's not related to the similarity you mention, because from the time Rainey was out and Robert left, Doohan won the title five times in a row, then who won the titles in 500 for Honda and who won a single 500 title for Yamaha?

So you suffer from lack of clear memory recollection or still playing this funny game, the fact remain, the guys who won multiple titles in 500 were all mastering the slide, and to be more precise, i don't think Lorenzo would have done better on a 500 than Kosinski, Cadalora or Biaggi, especiqally vs Lawson, Rainey, Doohan and Rossi...

 

It's not the name and the emotional B-S it's the style and the capability to over-ride the bikes.

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RawDawg

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Posts: 960

RawDawg says:

Just stop it DeGrasse

 Jorge was winning races when Rossi left and actually won the title when he was gone. Remember that? No, a good part of Jorge's season isn't credit to Rossi and Burgess. You do know Jorge won 3 out of the first 6 races right? Just stop trying to give Rossi credit for every damn thing. Hell, Cal was faster than Rossi in QT most of the time just too bad he's a crasher.

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RawDawg

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RawDawg says:

Come on into 2013 Wosi

 No, they aren't racing 500s. It doesn't matter if you think the bikes are " R&D economy trial for computer geeks" - that's what they race. It doesn't matter if they are bicycles with lawn mower engines - they race what they race. And everytime on track Jorge blows Rossi into the weeds. Rossi isn't as fast as Jorge and hasn't been for years. He isn't even faster than Pedrosa anymore. Stop looking for excuses and deal with it. Father time is undefeated.

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RawDawg

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RawDawg says:

Oh and by the way DeGrasse

 If Burgess made such a difference this past year Rossi would not have fired his ass

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DeGrasse

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DeGrasse says:

RawDawgsays

Yes i remember this (point 1), doesn't change anything to all i wrote or your funny interpretation of it, Lorenzohigsided the M1 more than anyone else since 2008.

All you wrote doesn't change facts and records, and if you weren't going to the usual personal stuff B-S you would simply admit that my points are valid becuse they are not mine, but that of Yamaha and race record mostly, but no, you prefer to argue and twist things around.

Who cares? Point are:

1)  Rossi is arguably the most influent rider for his technical insight at Yamaha since Kenny Roberts and HE also have 500 cc experience.

2) Rossi won twice as many title for Yamaha than Lorenzo in only one more year.

3) Yamaha wheel base and swing arm are longer since 2011.

4) Rossi technical insight is precisely what allowed Yamaha do gid themself out of the hole they were at the start of this season and there are yet enough records and MCN articles to prove my points on this.

Starting with; you can't have both high corner speed and good braking and acceleration on this chassis, Rossi pointed out these weaknesses and Yamaha improved on them.

Disagree with this? Prove your point otherwise than the usual personal B-S, then go and  tell Yamaha that their best assets since 1978 got it wrong because they seems not to know about it as much as you do, and btw Burgess not competent enough is also one reason for you to apply for his job in passing.

So if you were that little AWARE, you would know that the 2011, 2012 and 213 bikes were/are tailor made around Lorenzo style, not that of Rossi and that Yamaha are reversing toward a geometry allowing for Rossi to ride it the way he likes.

Disagree with this? Prove your point otherwise than the usual personal B-S (again) if you can.

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wosihound

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Jul 12

Posts: 3018

wosihound says:

Crikey..

A Speez fan accusing others of looking for excuses?..haha

Just pointing he's a more talented all-rounder, Dawg.

Ever noticed Lorenzo and Pedrosa are the only riders who want to keep electronic rider aids, because it's safer?

Didn't do Dani any favours at Aragon..which kinda illustrates my point. 

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Druids

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Sep 10

Posts: 695

Druids says:

Meanwhile...

as stated by both team director, Yamaha and Honda will go after Lorenzo in 2014. Same as they did in 2011 or even 2009. Quite strange for a rider with so many flaws...


Or that the numbers don't lie and anyone with a decent knowledge, let alone Nakamoto and Jarvis, is aware that Lorenzo has been, by a fair margin, the most consistent rider in the world over the last 6 season ?






What an explosive mix of hatred and bias, he never disappoints. :lol:



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