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Anonymous

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Simon Patterson  says:

Rossi on top as testing concludes

Valentino Rossi has left the final official pre-season test of 2014 leading the way, as the Italian confirmed afterwards that he was feeling much more positive than this time last year. Just dipping inside the 2 minute mark, Rossi completed a 1:59.999 lap on his 13th lap of 41, a time that could only matched but not beaten by Repsol Honda’s...

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  • Posted 146 days ago (28 February 2014 11:56)

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DeGrasse

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Posts: 2323

DeGrasse says:

davefinnerty

 Really? And why is that? For your info most Spanish riders today including Marquez went to train at his ranch near Barcelona.

Traction control, is for sissies, it's the wrist that makes the difference... 

Carbon brakes? Marlboro Yamaha had them on their 500, Delta box (Kobas style beam frame) they were the first to use them on factory bikes followed by Kawasaki and Suzuki, mono track suspension after cantilever, exentric on the swing arms from Roberts Dirt track bikes, etc, you obviously haven't followed most of the 500cc era.

As for the geometry and suspension, since 1930 nothing new there, still the same principle, still the same limitation, swing arm and telescopic forks and K.R knows more about it than most.

 

Nostrodamus: BLAH Pedrosa won more GP in 2012, Stoner crushed him in 2011, Marquez bets the heck out of him on his first year in Moto GP and on the RC.

Lorenzo can't hack it when there is no grip.

 

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Nostrodamus

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Nostrodamus says:

Motocrosser Jorge Lorenzo

 has won almost twice as many GPs as minimoto rider Valentino Rossi since entering the premier class in 2008. 

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Parkway70

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Parkway70 says:

Dave...are you sure about that?

 I think Roberts has more racing experience than anyone I can think of. What you forget Dave is that he managed/mentored some the the all time greats ie: Rainey, Lawson, Cadalora, Kocinski etc,(riders who shaped modern GP racing) .I'm sure he`s fully aware of the lastest advances in MotoGp as he was a great inovator and a great one for embrassing tecnology ie: Carbon brakes,telementry, Alloy frames etc 

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DeGrasse

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DeGrasse says:

Nostrodamus

 You can Blah as much as you want, it doesn't mean he can translate his off road training time into throttle control on a GP bike and obviously he doesn't.

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davefinnerty

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davefinnerty says:

same

Traction control is not for sissies, its a different skill set for a different time. Formula one got rid of it and it didnt change the pecking order...the cream always rise to the top.

As for your second point, my dad had a genisis 1000 back in the day, it had a deltabox frame but it was a different beast to his mid 90's blade and heaven knows how different to a 2014 R1.

I once a an 02 cbr600 and you would not believe the difference when I got an 05 and after that 09 triumph 675 which was as much of a step on again. If you dont believe me if you get a chance take a mates modern 1000 round the track and you will feel how antiquated your thunderace is. Thats not a dig its just fact

For your last point all I can say is your being rediculous again, no change in suspension and frame geometry from 1930 to present..you cannot possibly think that!

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DeGrasse

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DeGrasse says:

davefinnerty

Really? And what skills exactly does it take to ride a bike which does it all for you? Anti skidding, anti-wheelies and the rest...

You have no clue.
As for frame geometry and suspension, find the difference in principle between the first one equipped with both swing arm and telescopic forks and now.
There is NONE.
ps, i'd beat any 90' Blade on the brakes and on corner speed with the Ace, even M1 first models, which i did several time over at Donington Park and other tracks.
The only issue with it was the 5 speed gearbox (could fit a YZF 750 racing 6 on it without any modification) and the extra weight.
The M1 is lighter, has more top end, turns in better but is a lot less stable, you can slide it out of turns, not an option with the Ace because of its weight mostly, so in this aspect you could compare the Ace to Lorenzo's 2011/13 M1 and it is what i was doing with it, carrying corner speed (and it CAN take a lot of it), the difference is that the Ace could brake a lot better (not while turning tough it wouldn't turn at all on the brakes) compared to the other and Lorenzo M1 doesn't because of weight distribution, not only wheel base as is the case for the YZF 1000.

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Nostrodamus

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Nostrodamus says:

Jorge Lorenzo

 based his style on the smooth flowing riding of Valentino Rossi,  the man famous for bringing the high corner speed U line back to the 500cc category after a decade of V line dominance. 

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davefinnerty

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Posts: 209

davefinnerty says:

Same

 TC and other modern developments have just resulted in higher levels of consistancy closer to the limit. Lorenzo, Rossi and co can string together dozens of laps within a few tenths of each other. Its a different challenge, does'nt mean its less of a challenge.

I have no clue? Your comparison of antique bikes and modern machinery with regard to suspension that because the priciple is the same is akin to saying that the Wright brothers first airplane demands the same skills of its pilots as current aircraft because the principle is the same! your a joke man!

Do yourself a favour though and do what I said about getting a spin on a modern 1000 round a track, then get back to us

 

 

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davefinnerty

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davefinnerty says:

same

 Re-read my previous post. Its not about you beating some guy on a nineties blade its about you actually riding a modern 1000 because it will open your eyes. By the way you describe oyur track day exploits who knows, you mite go so fast on a new bike you might be Lorenzo's new team mate next year!

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that your Thunderace has more in common with my ride on mower than an M1

 

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DeGrasse

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Posts: 2323

DeGrasse says:

Nostrodamus

 Absolute BS as usual. Rossi was known from the 500 cc era as being able to turn the bike on the brakes and gas, the total opposite of carrying corner speed and the total opposite chassis and setting.

You know so little about bikes, you can't even comprehend what chassis difference it takes to achieve both.

 

davefinnerty: Lorenzo took advantage of the progress made by the tyres from 2008, but he never was able to hack it on the gas from 2008, spend more time over the handle bars in 2008 than on the podium, went to Roberts for this very reasons, never translated this training to the M1 since.

Result? Today he is in trouble because the M1 set for him carries too much weight on the rear, can't allow him to brake hard (heat build up), can't slide on the gas without twisting itself to knots (wheel base plus weight distribution and intertia).

All he's got is the 250 style corner speed but there is nothing else in his style that can help him go fast, not Rossi case, he always was able to slide the bikes in and out and won enough 500 gp to make this point including a title.

Being smooth doesn''t mean riding like a 250 cc rider, Lawson was a dirt tracker, not Lorenzo, Kosinski and Cadalora were smooth they never won a 500 cc title either, same for Biaggi also 250 cc style.

It's the throtle control which makes the difference when the tyres slides and Lorenzo never developed the right skills, he even had Yamaha develop the M1 for the opposite style.

So you guys are welcome to stop trying to rewrite every book in the history of Moto GP. Cheers.

ps here in Britain i did courier my Yamaha 850 TRX, in the wet, i was able to go 360 around a roundabout in the p1ss1ng rain sideways, thanks to good engine control, frame geometry and a little training, on a 550 Kawasaki GT the engine would spin out of control because of the engine characteristics, that's the same between a 500 cc and a 4 stroke of today in GP.

So don't you guys tell me about smooth and sliding the bike, my style is based around smoothnes and managing weight transfer, traction control makes the bikes a lot easier to ride, skills matters a lot less and when the condition are slipery it shows.

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