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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Yamaha deny Jorge Lorenzo Open test request

Jorge Lorenzo believes he would have a better chance of winning back the premier class crown on Aleix Espargaro’s Open-spec Yamaha YZR-M1. Lorenzo is adamant that the Forward Racing YZR-M1, which can utilise four more litres of fuel and extra soft Bridgestone tyres, would be more of a title threat than his factory prototype machine. Forward Racing rider Espargaro has been the...

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  • Posted 184 days ago (19 March 2014 16:08)

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Hedgehog5

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 2319

Hedgehog5 says:

LotW...

I apologise... let me clarify... you said they've down developed the bike to lose to their factory bike... Stoner disagrees... personally I haven't ridden either... if they have they may have seriously messed up but that's a fault of the rules that Dorna have introduced this year... on same tyres & fuel the current full factory bike may blow it away... with the advantages that come with being in the Open class (soft tyre, fuel etc) their Honda, back-to-back, could be as fast as their factory bike, as we've consistently seen with Yamaha.


You seem to be saying that a rookie on a RCV1000R should therefore be as fast as world champ Marquez on a RC213V... he's 1.8 secs slower... wow!

"From what you are posting it sounds like you think Honda should have developed a bike that could beat their own factory! If you do think they should have done that, why?"

Because, as a result of a miscalculation by Dorna, it may lead to them missing out on the title... that's what it's all about isn't it? If an Open class bike takes the championship the manufacturers won't look bad... Dorna will have messed up.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you... it's all speculation... & this is all yet to be tested in a race... & if it is who's to say that Dorna won't change the rules again?

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3353

Bultoboy says:

Hedgehog

I'm not sure what your interpretation of what Stoner said is, but from the press releases / quotes, he didn't say that much about it in reality. He thought it was better than he assumed it would be and with some small modifications believed it would be competitive. But with what? We don't know from that whether he meant as an Open bike against the other Open bikes, or competitive enough to fight for podiums.

From what I see, Honda have given Dorna what they wanted, a grid filler. None of the true Open bikes, the 'home brew specials', even with their fuel and tyre concessions are anywhere near the prototypes. Hayden is by far the quickest of the non-prototypes, a second ahead of the next one. So Honda have produced an 'Open winner' in the spirit it was asked for.

The Forward bikes may be racing as Open but they are full prototypes, so you can't compare the RCVR to them. If anyone, it's Yamaha who have messed up not Honda, as Espargaro could give their factory and satellite teams some real problems this year, just by putting it on the front row with the soft tyre. May not finish on the podium but his positioning in the first few laps could properly interfere with Lorenzo and co. But it's no inconeivable that he could take points from the prototypes on occassion.

Realistically, Honda couldn't ethically sell a bike for 1m euros that will equal or out perform the bikes it leases to its satellite teams for 3m. It's a grid filler the same as the true Open bikes are, aka CRT. If, after 2016 when there is only one claas again, Dorna ban things like pneumatic valves, electronic clutches, seamless gearboxes etc. then a bike like the RCVR may well be the future of Motogp and the privateer teams may once again have a chance of competing for podiums.

As it stands, all we'll see in 2016 is what we have now, prototypes with control ECU (Forward) still way ahead of the privateers.

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3058

wosihound says:

Bollocks..

Where have Dorna stated they just wanted a "grid filler"?

Their aim is to close the gap between front and back..to have a more competitive grid.

You monkeys haven't got a clue and are talking shite again.

Fkin Honda apologists. Bulto bums Nakamoto.


HRC have screwed up and look like plums..hahaha funny as fk, useless bastards.

"I was expecting to be more competitive..when they said the bike was only 0.3s away from the factory bike, maybe they forgot to say that was on each straight, not the whole lap!..I'm 2 seconds off the front and for me, in my career, this is not acceptable" ..Scott Redding

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Bultoboy

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Bultoboy says:

Wosi

grow up and shove your Honda apologists shite up your @rse

You really think Honda or anyone else was going to produce a bike for sale at 1m euros that was able to challenge the prototypes when a satellite bike is 3m to lease. Yamaha were only leasing an engine for 800,000 euros.

It's pointless comparing the Forward Yam to the Honda as the Yam is a factory prototype.

How do they explain to Gresini or LCR that they can produce a bike for 1m that is as good as their 3m leased bikes? You can bet Poncheral is not happy behind closed dorrs either.

Either both Yamaha and Honda are vastly over charging for their satellite bikes or that is the true difference in cost of providing a near factory spec bike.

Aspar stated themselvges that they didn't think the 0.3 seconds a lap quoted by Honda was correct. They said it was more like 1 second and still bought the bikes.

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3058

wosihound says:

haha..

you soft cunt.

You've done nothing but make excuses for Stoner and Nakamoto telling lies to sell their shite grid filler.

You're not a real race fan and would be happy wanking over Casey riding on his own all day long.

You can't tell one end of a spanner from another, have absolutely no idea about the politics and only infest this forum to spit venom and conspiracy theories about Rossi.

Give us all a break you pompous prick and fuck off.

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DeGrasse

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Aug 13

Posts: 2839

DeGrasse says:

Agreed wosi.

This is about M-C not skateboards and when one doesn't comprehend the basics one can't really get into the technicalities behind the events.

Myself for one can't grab the first thing there is to know about Moto GP engines and ECUs so i won't start to talk about it bar passing infos i can understand.

But what i noticed, is that what was predicatble technically when it comes to chassis and tyres have happened; Rossi is closer to the front factory guys and Lorenzo is struggling because of his style.

So much for all the flame wars endured on these subjects... We will see more about it this W-E and during the rest of the season but it's obvious to those who wants to see, not the SloMos who think the limit is that of the tyres adherence.

I thought British riders were used to ride in the wet... Hang on, yes i KNOW they are, all my courrier friends were mostly good in the wet but not everyone seems to know M-C are sliding things in this forum, go figure that one. LOL!

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Hedgehog5

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 2319

Hedgehog5 says:

Bulto...

"The Forward bikes may be racing as Open but they are full prototypes, so you can't compare the RCVR to them."


Erm... they comply with the regs & they will be compared directly with them & on race day with the full prototypes on different tyres etc... Honda can cry into their beer & cry foul as much as they want but if they've not exploited the rules to their full, & instead, as you say, have produced a dumbed down grid filler (this is still racing isn't it?) then it's their own fault.

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DeGrasse

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Aug 13

Posts: 2839

DeGrasse says:

It's a test...

For all the guys running on low-grip tyres, now we can see who can adapt to it and who struggles. Last year, Marquez didn't know the tyres or how to manage them up to assen, he still managed to better Pedrosa because he is used to slide a M-C more than him. Rossi used to slide 500 cc, the RC and M1 from day one, the difference is in the style.

In 2008 Lorenzo went to K.R because he had issues in the wet, 3 weeks later he crashed in the wet at Silverstone, he never was at ease with the power delivery of the M1s from day one, and dirt track or not, never developed the skill to road racing, reason for developing his 250 style and the M1 chasis from 2011.

Now we can see the difference. Yamaha came up with a revised chassis for better braking and turning (for those who grab the technicality behind this, it means wheel base and weight distribution but also works for acceleration and sliding), so Rossi is closer but he is also not fearing the low grip as much as Jorge.

Lorenzo might have a year to prove his worth now, if he struggles withthe M1 he will do so even more on the RC which needs to be driven on the gas a lot more than the Yamaha, so Honda saying they are interested by signing him was just (as i predicted) a good way to cut out Yamaha's work by taking their No rider.

Luckily we will see one of the Espargaro bros on a facroty M1 in 2015 if Jorge leaves, for 2014, their best assets might turn out to be Rossi and them.

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DeGrasse

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DeGrasse says:

*Read:

He stayed 3 weeks and the following W-E crashed in the wet at Silverstone.

Sorry i can't EDIT for some reason...

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Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3353

Bultoboy says:

Hedgy

Like you say, Honda can cry foul all they want, no-one has broken any rules

What I can't understand is why people seem surprised at the performance level of the RCVR.

From your perspective, did you think that the 1m bike they were producing was going to be able to challenge their sattelite bikes that cost 3 times as much to produce?

 

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