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Anonymous

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Liam Marsden  says:

Qatar MotoGP: Marquez storms to victory

Reigning champion Marc Marquez battled through the pain barrier of a broken leg to take victory at the Losail circuit. The Repsol Honda rider started from pole position and had to battle with Stefan Bradl and Valentino Rossi to take 25 points. Rossi made Marquez fight right to the wire, with the pair swapping places several times on the penultimate lap. Rossi...

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  • Posted 216 days ago (23 March 2014 19:55)

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 3486

DeGrasse says:

vmax4steve

No i'm not going to tell you to fcuk off, at least you spelled my name politely, instead i'll take you on just to see if you can back up your comment.

So let me ask you a few question, if you can elaborate on this:

What do you see has changed fundamentaly in the chassis designs, geometry and basic principle since the 30?

Do the chassis of today escape the laws of physics and weight transfer?

Does they manage to preserve basic geometry when load changes are meet at acceleration and braking?

Are they using different systems than swing arms and telescopic forks?

The simple answer to that is NO, and even with the "modern technology" argument the answer still is the same, all bikes works the same way when their basic design geometry is similar, modern suspension and material changes NOTHING to that.

Your modern forks and shocks doesn't prevent the bikes to change geometry when you open the throttle and hit the brakes, they just allow you to fine tune the way the bike is going to respond to this.

And the guy who got me to comprehend this is the one who Yamaha says he is the most influencial in the history of Moto GP and for their company, i need not to spell his name you know who, a fast Ladybird who rewrote the Book for everyone.

But perhaps you're more knowledgeable so i hope you will reply with technical insights and not with more manure as we've seen from the SloMos. I can handle a technical debate.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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Trident900rider

Joined:

Nov 12

Posts: 23

I did not mean...

That VR would not get a podium all season - only the next race :)
 

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shawno76

Joined:

Aug 10

Posts: 512

shawno76 says:

Hedgers..

Nice summary.  Agreed - first race 'prom night' nerves - even for the experienced and those fallers certainly gifted some points and confidence away....  gotta echo it too - Rossi was class.  Marquez really is a silver bullet.  Secretly rooting for Dani to finally lift that trophy though.  Real shame for Smith but we're gonna see him on the podium this year.  Redding must be wetting his pants - good for his confidence.  Good for the Brits.

Lorenzo?  Still one of the best but he's turning into Biaggi (did you see the old Spartan on the grid warming up his bezzy mate?).  He needs to calm it down a bit.  Bautistas year to shine the crazy bar*sta!rd (but great for the show)

And yep - I'm looking forward to Austin because I'll be there! 

 

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 3486

DeGrasse says:

Hedgehog5

I don't think Rossi qualifying let him down, from my humble opinion he took the opportunity to fine tune his bike for the race, look at his lap times from Friday to the race...

 

shawno76 Lucky you...


Agreed on Lorenzo, my question mark about him last year was if he ever will have what it takes to adapt and change style (especially if he is planning to go to Honda), because as Yamaha figured out, the 250 style works as long as a Stoner is not there (or haven't got the right tyres for his style) or there is enough grip on his tyres.

It's simple logic, these bikes weights 157 kg plus, so on the edge they are put under a tremendous amount of load, sliding the bike puts less load on them than being under g for a longer period of time, it worked for him because the tyres progressed but with Marquez on a RC able to slide it, it's game over.

Enjoy your GP at Austin.
 

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NanoNano

Joined:

Mar 14

Posts: 59

NanoNano says:

Hmmm ... tasty

Finally someone mentions the great job by the 'Cheltenham Cheeseburger' - 7th in his debut GP and first proddy Honda ahead of two former world champions. That's some feat by Redding. 

At long last, this fine performance lays rest to the abject nonsense and lame excuses that have continually circulated around his supposed weight disadvantage - he's a hefty 11kg heavier than Hayden, but still made the softer tyre last the full distance on the under-powered Honda.

Probably the ride of the day.

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doohanfan

Joined:

Jan 12

Posts: 1828

doohanfan says:

De Grasse

you have some interesting theories not without rational basis imo. I do doubt that you or anyone else has quite devised the unifield theory of gp bike design and riding as yet, whilst agreeing if ever such a theory is developed and proven it will encompass King Kenny.


I don't agree with quite a lot of your extrapolation regarding Lorenzo and your evidence for it; in particular Kenny recognised him as an outstanding talent when he visited his ranch as a 250 rider before he had ever encountered a premier class bike, and Kenny's comments after riding the modern (I think an 800) gp bike to me compared the modern electronically aided bike with the 500s of his era without necessarily having any implications at all about Lorenzo's set-up or development skills, and nor was it clear what iteration of the Yamaha 800 he rode. 

Lorenzo very likely does have limitations as a rider, as do they all, including Stoner in regard to his tyre needs as you say, fan of his though I was.  I think what annoys Lorenzo and Pedrosa is MMs total fearlessness which they possibly see as recklessness; Lorenzo was similar before his head injuries in 2008.

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 3486

DeGrasse says:

doohanfan

K.R doesn't talk about Lorenzo as an outtstanding talent styler-wise but as a strong racer which is totally different.

On the topic of his riding technique, in 2008 Lorenzo visited him at his ranch because he had an issue with low grip (wet racing), he stayed 3 weeks and was quiet strong doing off road.

But there is more to it than just that, for example, KR trainees were spending a lot of time going ovals around cones on mini 100 cc sideways to get use of appyling off road skills to road racing.

Fact is, the week end following his stay at K.R ranch Jorge crashed in the wet at Silverstone, this was in 2008, he never applied what K.R might have taught him to road racing.

This year he was highsiding more often than doing podiums, since, he is the Yamaha rider who highsided the most for decades, he never was at ease on the gas and developed ther 250 style with the help of another 250 rider, Wilco Zeelenberg.

The point i am making here, Roberts says himself two things; the limit is NOT that of the tyres (of course the rear) but passed that, you can make up 10 th by sliding the bike.

The 250 style works as long as there is grip, especially with bikes of this weight, the 250 could carry more corner speed because of the ratio weight/grip, not because it was fashionable.

Now if you look at the past 4 years, you will noticed that when Stoner was able to drive the RC to its best he totally dominated Lorenzo, last year, Martquez was faster everywhere (partials)
with 9 poles and 11 race best laps bar the very fast curves, had he have the experience to translate these into wins he would have done the same than Stoner.

The fact is, bar Lorenzo, all multiple world champs since Roberts were good at sliding bikes.

Can't beat the stats.

 

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vmax4steve

Joined:

Mar 08

Posts: 315

vmax4steve says:

De Grasse

If nothings changed then why re-write the book. If you believe that a Norton featherbed frame is no different in principal to what the Motogp boys are using today then there is really nothing to argue against. Technology changes but human beings do not, they need feel especially when their lives are put on the line. The most important aspect that has changed in modern motorcycle design is building suspension into the frame itself so that it still soaks up the bumps and gives feeling to the rider when leaned over at todays absurd angles due to modern tyre technology. This aligned with flex built into the swingarm and forks makes for a more forgiving ride than was possible seventy years ago, or even thirty. Riders are therefore faster than ever before, but not better as you can only use what was available to you in your own era.

What I don't get is why Motogp bikes don't use a front swingarm to separate braking from suspension thus giving a more stable motorcycle that doesn't change wheelbase dimension when braking hard with the front brake. It's said the riders don't have a feel for this as they use front fork dive to guage how hard they're braking, and when there are no forks it's not what they are used to so don't like it. Give the bike a front swingarm and just tell the riders to fcuking well get used to it I say.

BTW De Grasse, if you're wrong hold up your hand and admit it, you're not the only one who thinks he knows everything but doesn't. I have never raced on track but have beat up quite a few sports bikes on the road on my Vmax, which isn't easy so I too know a little about rear wheel steering. I never use the rear brake, in fact my rear brakes seizes up with lack of use, speedway riders do it with no brakes at all, and Anthony Gobert did it on every bike he ever rode, slid the front like a maniac as well. Bikes are not designed to suit a certain rider, but the feedback that a rider gives will lean a bikes development in their own personal direction, unless of course that you're Casey Stoner and your getting results that defy the bikes original design quirks and frailties, then it's all your own fault  according to some numpties on this forum. But hell if you're fast on everything you sling your leg over whos going to listen to you ? certainly not Ducati that's for sure.

I'm pretty sure that an awfull lot of numpties on this forum were cheering on Fenati yesterday simply because he's in the VR46 moto3 team, if you're one of them then we're not going to get anything of any substance from you. Let's just watch the racing and see how it unfolds without claiming to be experts in a field as to why and how just to bolster own own little egos, 'cos the whole world is reading us and we're very important. Post with humility and humour because what we actually know is nothing but opinion, and I'm as guilty as the next poster for that, but I do use my own logic rather than fawn over certain riders or certain marques due to some psychological subconscious fear of my own sexuality or masculinity.

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 5416

Nostrodamus says:

Agreed LoTW

I too have now become completely bored with reading the same repetitive dross over and again from Quasimoto. He is far and away the forum's biggest bore with next to zero knowledge of MotoGP; technical or otherwise. Just another deluded Rossi fanboy bedwetter copy / pasting and inventing B/S.

His conceited arrogance being perfectly exemplified by his abusive dogmatic assertions on tyres over the entire weekend in the face of  dozens of posters telling him otherwise. The Frog with a Thunderarse really wouldn't have a clue.

I've even lost interest in ridiculing him now, such was the ease of it. From now on I too shall be stomping on my rear brake skipping, slipping and slewing straight over his delusional ramblings. He can keep his tales of novice vested sport tourer group track day exploits with KR holding on tight inbehind to himself.

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hello4646

Joined:

Oct 08

Posts: 610

hello4646 says:

For

Once Nostro, i agree

Who cares - All that needs to be said, is that they are fooking good riders and it was a good race to watch

Nuf said

 

 

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