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Anonymous

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Liam Marsden  says:

Qatar MotoGP: Marquez storms to victory

Reigning champion Marc Marquez battled through the pain barrier of a broken leg to take victory at the Losail circuit. The Repsol Honda rider started from pole position and had to battle with Stefan Bradl and Valentino Rossi to take 25 points. Rossi made Marquez fight right to the wire, with the pair swapping places several times on the penultimate lap. Rossi...

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  • Posted 158 days ago (23 March 2014 19:55)

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doohanfan

Joined:

Jan 12

Posts: 1582

doohanfan says:

not a Biaggi fan

at the time (rather obviously given my soubriquet)  but he did pretty well in his first year on a 500, 250 style and all, particularly given how good most including me consider Doohan to have been. I did find myself supporting him on the Aprilia superbike. 


There was also the small matter of the yamaha 990 engine prior to  Furusawa's cross-plane crankshaft design, as opposed to the phenomenal  Honda V5 engine. There are quite a few, and not just posters on motogp fan forums,  who consider last year's honda to have had an engine advantage also.    

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DeGrasse

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Aug 13

Posts: 2706

DeGrasse says:

doohanfan

To reply to more of your questions: It's not Lorenzo performances i am critical of, since as i always said, the M1 chassis didn't help him, in particular when he is loosing it in the wet or slippery condition on the gas, perhaps you noticed, i criticised the chassis for being near impossible to control when the rear departs, Rossi wasn't sliding the 2013 either.

As a Yamaha fan (i really should change my name) i support the factory and the bike they develop first, rider second, like i supported Biaggi vs Rossi when he was No1 at Yamaha, but both these guys (Biaggi and Lorenzo) have taken the factory on a path which lead them nowhere and as a matter of fact it took Rossi TWICE at Yamaha Racing to get them out of the tunnels.

Lorenzo was not as lucky as Lawson or Rainey, he didn't have the best rider  of his time and the most influential technically speaking, which is what K.R was as a team mate for Lawson and manager for Rainey, instead he was coached by an average 250 cc rider who had NO CLUE about riding bikes of this power and weight.

The chassis that was developed by this combination was one of the worst i saw at Yamaha for a long time and i said so first thing when we started to debate about Rossi performances last year in response to the endless bashing i could read about him.

Lorenzo is fast, a good rider no doubt but i reiterate, in his shoes a guy like Kosinski or Cadalora would have done the same they were not less talented, and yet they never won a 500 title because it is the difference between good and great, sliding abilities makes the difference. Now if Lorenzo can become great or not is a question mark.

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Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3335

Bultoboy says:

Yes De Grasse

I thought you'd say something like that

So for Lorenzo, corner speed means entering slower with wheels in line but going around the actual corner as fast as possible on the edge of the tyres

For Doohan, corner speed means entering the corner fast, sliding the rear, then spinning up the rear coming out of the corner on the fat part of the tyre

So there are two versions of conrer speed then?

Now, about Doohan spinning that rear. More from JB:

Doohan's crew chief Jerry Burgess believes the 1990 NSR was the best ever - a huge leap forward. HRC dumped the 90-degree firing order, copying the more forgiving Yamaha's double-strike 180-degree configuration to tame wheelspin. With a good front tire Doohan would've won the title (1991), for he finally had a chassis suited to his high corner-speed style, instead of the point and squirt technique used by Gardner and the Yankee ex-dirt trackers.

But it took Doohan a while to fall in love with the droning BIG BANG motor. HRC man Shoji Tachikawa remembers: "The engine note made it sound slow, so riders thought they were going slow. Mick was very surprised when he came into pits and saw his times."

In fact lap times weren't faster but they weren't slower either and the reduced wheelspin improved tire life, so race times were faster.

Doohan's input was starting to show dividends in other ways too - a whole new generation of riders were starting to win on the NSR. Former 125 and 250 men who would have fried their brains on old 500s were now competitive. There were two reasons for this: Big Bang power and Doohan's riding style, that had changed the direction of chassis and tire development away from rear-wheel steering to high corner speed. This suited the Europeans who had never been able to do that tail-sliding dirt track stuff. Now guys like Alex Criville, Alberto Puig, Loris Capirossi, Carlos Checa and Max Biaggi could ride and win on a 500.

 

Which was the point of me giving the quote that 'made your day' about the bikes had got easier to ride. Because by the time Rossi arrived they were riding them like 250 GP bikes and had bee for some time - and Rossi had come striaght out of 250. But for 2000, Honda had made the engine more aggressive again, which is why, Burgess said, that Rossi crashed a number of times that season, mid-corner. He was caught out by the sudden power increase in the rev range. They wanted the previous engine which was smoother but didn't get it. Burgess says they would have won the title with the previous engine. So what he's saying is that Rossi didn't adapt and use dirt tracking style to ride around the issue of an engine that suddenly hit hard in the rev range mid corner. He wanted the smoother engine for more corner speed - 250 style.

Interestingly, the comments on the big bang engine and lap times and tyre wear were heard again in 2004 for Yamaha's new cross plane crank M1. A bike with superb corner speed.

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MrKrabs

Joined:

Sep 12

Posts: 209

MrKrabs says:

There sure is

a lot of **** being spoken about Lorenzo on here by some people. He Fell off! It happens, not sure that qualifies him as the most unadaptable rider in the history of the sport. He's moaning about tyres, set up etc, so what, he moans a lot, so do most of the riders when things arent perfect for them. Perhaps we should wait a few rounds before we start condeming a 4 time WC as a one trick pony with the devlopment skills of a drunk Badger.

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 2706

DeGrasse says:

Bultoboy

LOL! "Entering slower" to carry MORE corner speed? I give up, i'm not interested reading yet more tons of under-educated B-S, go and sue your education minister, you'll make enough dosh to finance a two years cruise and moto gp video pass, granted.


MrKrabs: Lorenzo development skill are as good as the changes Yamaha made to the chassis he wanted for the past 3 years and the partials, race lap times and poles all year when Stoner was in one piece and last season vs a rookie.

They went Rossi's way this year not to please Valentino but because they are capable of looking at the stats and figure they are loosing too much to the RC to be competitive and that's Lorenzo's development skills for you, not anyone else. In short, Yamaha Racing and development Dpt disagree with you.

You might want to deny this but it is reality for you.

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Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3335

Bultoboy says:

Yes, how you keep telling us that Lorenzo is slower into a corner than Marquez or Rossi because he brakes earlier

That's your definition, not mine. That's why it's bullsh1t

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CH987

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 877

CH987 says:

DeGrasse

STFU You've had your fun . You've f***ed up this site with your boring boring shite now FOAD c**t.

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 2706

DeGrasse says:

CH987

Yeah sure, you're doing great yourself. Any comment opn M-C? Your intention might be noble but your head is up the wrong place my dear sir, get a grip.

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DeGrasse

Joined:

Aug 13

Posts: 2706

DeGrasse says:

Bultoboysays

Quote: "Yes, how you keep telling us that Lorenzo is slower into a corner than Marquez or Rossi because he brakes earlier

That's your definition, not mine. That's why it's bullsh1t".

Boy, you can try to quote me saying that, either you're really confused or stoned to delirium levels, if i were you i'd qui sniffing glue or whatever treatment you inflict on yourself because there is no one who carry as much corner speed a Jorge there and everyone can see that for themselves, but he since you also believe he out-brakes people i'm not surprised you get your wires crossed to fusion.

Second, the Honda is not designed for the purpose, Lorenzo is generally faster mid-corner which makes 1 part of the corner out of 3, check the moto gp data and stop spinning things you're loosing it big time.

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3024

wosihound says:

Rossi on an NSR..

2nd in his debut season after getting rag-rolled to start.

Winning the next.

I think it's you saying he couldn't adapt Bulltoad - oh, and your chums - to everybody else, it's pretty clear he certainly did adapt..and PDQ.

It's Jorge, the one-trick M1 pony, who is struggling to adapt to a bike he's been riding as lead development rider for 4 years.

Remind you of anybody?

Another petulant character, who like you, struggled with technical aspects of the sport 

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